Speedlight for Canon Cameras

[Kim Hansen]

I love my new 50mm lens 1.8 aperature and now I think I need a speedlight (Fill Flash). I have no clue on what I should purchase and in need of some advice. Do any of you girls have the big flash that mounts to the top of cameras? I do know that I should purchase a Canon one because my camera is a Canon and it helps to not destroy the computer system in the camera by purchasing the same brand. I love to take indoor gym basketball shots--the new 50mm lens works great, but I see others in the gym with big flashes. I wanna be just like them:) Do you have any answers for me? Thanks.

[Kelli West]

I have the 580 Ex and love it!! It is one of the more expensive ones though!

[Ursula Page]

I have the 430 and WISH I would have gotten the 580.

[Kim Hansen]

Okay Girls, I'm going to check into the 580; I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR HELP. Thank You. Is this one made for the Canon cameras? Kelli, you have a canon don't you? Ursula, how about you?

[Kelli West]

Yeah, it's a Canon 580 ex!! Nothing but the best baby!!! I only get canon products to go with my canon camera. I just figured they made them to go with each other....so yeah!!!

[Ursula Page]

Yes...the Speedlites are for Canon's :) I too only use Canon stuff...

[Kim Hansen]

Thanks Girls. I'm off to the store next week--I hope B&H photo has one--I loved the price of my 50mm lens.

[Kim Hansen]

Okay, I just checked out B&H for the 580 Speedlite EX TTL II shoe mount flash--two different prices. One for $349 and the other for $919. Can I settle for the $349 one? The $919 has a transmitter kit; would that be something I need?

[Kim Hansen]

Oh!

[Kim Hansen]

I am

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so

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close

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to

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being

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a

[Kim Hansen]

Super

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Star!

[Kim Hansen]

Just

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what

[Kim Hansen]

my

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husband

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always

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dreamed

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of!

[Kim Hansen]

500! :cheer:

[Alishaw]

Kim, you're so cute! Congrats!

[Alyson]

:cheer: Go Kim!!! I'm so excited for you! :cheer:

I hope your hubby is excited too. :D

[Kelli West]

Yay Kim!! You are a :cheer:SUPERSTAR!!:cheer: we are all so happy! Before you know it you will be a Rock Legend with Me, Alyson & Jamie!!

[Kelli West]

I don't have the transmitter kit! So I don't know on that one Kim! :)

[brookiewookie]

My husband just got me the Canon 430 EX Speedlight for my birthday, which was a fun surprise. :) Kim, congrats! And fun that you're getting all of these great camera accessories. :)

[Misty]

I have the 430 EX for mine and it has been great for me. I don't know the difference between that one and the 580 so I can't help you there. I am not much of a flash user anyway, but when I use the 430, I have been very happy with it.

[Kim Hansen]

I really appreciate you girls telling me about your speedlights because I HAVE NO CLUE! I'm going to check into the 430 and 580--the ones that you suggested. Really, THANKS SO MUCH for all your comments.

[iNancy]

There are several differences between the 430 and the 580. The 580 has a 30% greater range than the 430 (how far it can reach at maximum power).

The 580 can act as a master or a slave flash, and the 430 only acts as a slave. If you truly HAVE NO CLUE (only quoting) about an external flash, chances are you may not be ready to learn how to use an off camera multi flash system.

I wouldn't buy the transmitter system for the same reason--you need to learn to walk before you can run philosophy. Besides, I think the money would be much better spent on other things you would use much more often.

The 580 can swivel 180 in either direction. The 430 swivels 180 to one side and 90 to the other. I doubt you would find this to be a limitation. The only reason I can think of swiveling 135 degrees is to bounce something off a white surface, and I doubt you'd do that often enough to miss it.

The 580 has a panel that raises up when you ceiling bounce that will reflect light forward to get a catchlight in your subject's eyes. You can do the exact same thing with the 430 with a rubber band and an index card. Just not quite as classy looking. I don't use my catchlight panel because I almost always use a diffuser.

The 430 is smaller and lighter and might be better balanced on a smaller camera like the XT or XTi.

The 430 is around $234 and the 580 currently around $350.

This is all off the top of my head because I was looking at the two flashes a couple of months ago. The 580 has a few more shooting modes, like strobe and other special effects, but honestly, I don't think you would use them that often.

I chose the 580 with much angst because I wanted that little bit of extra reach bouncing off tall ceilings and shooting in large rooms (wedding reception). However, here are some calculations to help you put the power issue in perspective.

Your basketball court is around 90 feet, or around 30 meters. With a guide number of 58 for the 580 ex, if you are at the very edge of the court, shooting at ISO 100, you should be able to reach the end of the court using an f/1.8 which is possible with your 50 mm 1.4. If you shoot at ISO 400, you can shoot twice as far. Or decrease your aperture to 4 for greater depth of field.

Using a guide number of 43 for the 430 EX, you will need to shoot at f/1.4, also possible with your lens, to reach the end of the court, and again, twice as far if you shoot at ISO 400 (or increase aperture by 2 stops to increase depth of field).

Think about if you will want to bounce your flash, because you may be in fact doubling your distance the flash needs to travel or more (since you lose a lot of strength of the flash with diffusion).

Basically, my advice is to learn what a flash can and can't do for you, and read up on how to use them before you invest in your equipment. The most expensive equipment will do no good to you if you don't know how to use it, and there's no sense in learning on the "best" if something else far better will be out by the time you've learned how to use half of what you've got.

[supermombritt]

wow. I guess I will stidk to my point and shoot for awhile. I don't think I am ready for that stuff yet. You must be really into taking pictures iNancy to know alll of that. Did you take a class or learn all on your own?

[Kim Hansen]

Oh my Goodness Nancy! YOU GAVE ME SOME GREAT ADVICE!!! I'm going to study up on your information. Thank you for typing all of that--it has really given me some insight. I did see a man at the basketball game the other night with an index card wrapped around his camera with a rubber band; I wondered what that was all about and now you have told me.

:)Who are you anyway Nancy? I THINK IT'S WONDERFUL THAT YOU POSTED. I might just have to email you and have a talk:) THANK YOU SO MUCH!

I did hear that speedlighting is a whole new ballgame.

[Katja Kromann]

WOW Nancy you are just a fountain of information!! I am speechless!!

[April]

I love the way you explained that Nancy. It makes it feel way less complicated!!

[iNancy]

I'm a junkie for extraneous information. I Google a lot, like the dimensions of the basketball court. I had to google the guide number formula, too, and I may have misapplied it--someone can double check my work.

You can email me anytime, Kim. I love reading about this stuff, but usually I overload people with details that are only interesting to myself, and then they shut down (my poor sister).

I've never taken any classes, but I'm a library and internet addict. Many of the other women on this board have tons more practical experience than I do.

Katja, for instance, does the off camera lighting, and happens to own at least one set of Pocket Wizards, and is looking for another set, right? She uses the 580 EXII.

You are right about the Speedlites being made to work with the Canon metering systems, though. The great thing about that is you can just set the camera and flash to work together, just like when you use program mode to let the camera make all the decisions and get well-exposed pictures. Then you can learn at your own pace to make different settings to get more creative control.

You can do this with both the 430 EX and the 580 EX. They both swivel so that you can bounce your flash off the ceiling in both landscape and portrait orientation, which is what I think makes a huge difference in interiors with normal height ceilings.

The next thing I started using was a diffuser, and that made even more of a difference. However, both the bounce flash and the diffuser decrease the flash power so much that I decided I "needed" the higher power flash because my ceilings in my living area are so tall.

Really, though, I think I would have been fine with the 430 EX and it would have sufficed for 95% of the pictures I take. When I did take pictures of a relative's wedding, the pro photog more than once stepped right in front of me to take his pictures, probably because he didn't want me and my big flash/Tupperware looking diffuser in his picture, and now I have him and his big flash/same Tupperware looking diffuser in my pictures!

Oh well, he was the one getting paid for the job.

[Kim Hansen]

Oh Nancy, we are SO GLAD that YOU are here and have come out to talk:) I'm am thrilled that you mentioned you are an addict for information and willing to help us out. You really have helped me and raised some questions that I will continue to ask. My main focus right now--since it is basketball season--is to get some GREAT shots in the gym. I love my new 50mm lens, it really is doing the trick, but I just wondered if I needed a flash to get even better focused pictures. I'm leaning towards the 430 right now from the information that you have given me. We have a ballgame tonight and I'm going to try a few new settings on my camera to see if I really do need the flash. I WILL KEEP IN TOUCH and please know how much I APPRECIATE YOU!

PS. That's funny about that pro photographer--I bet YOU are BETTER!

[Kim Hansen]

Nancy, I'm reading your message again and again:) Now, tell me about that diffuser--is that an attachment you put on the lens or flash?

[Kelli West]

its for the flash!! there are many many different kinds out there kim!! big ones, small ones ......some the size of your head...(how could I not throw that one in...It's from Lion King....)!! Cc....anyway, look up light diffusers!!

[iNancy]

The diffuser, as Kelli says, is for the flash, and just as she says, there are lots to choose from.

The bigger the diffuser, the more it tends to soften the light, but the more you soften, the more power you lose, so it's a trade off. One of my best working diffusers was a piece of translucent foam sheeting that a photobook came packed in. I cut it so I could wrap it around my flash with a double layer in back and a single layer in front. Although it worked well, it raised so many questions and looked tacky, and my flash's headgear was so distracting that I couldn't get any candids!

Then I bought a knock off of a Lightsphere diffuser. Same principle, worked about the same. I thought it would look slightly classier than the foam, but it looks like a salad spinner, and is just as much of a conversation piece. I told people it was to hold my leftovers at the wedding reception. Again, I can't get many candids because everyone just gapes at this THING on my camera. But it does help soften light.

Really, though, you're into sports photography, and a diffuser won't make a bit of difference because you're too far from the subjects, and you'll just lose your flash power.

Diffusers make more of a difference in portrait photography, when you're trying to flatter women and make children look all soft and cuddly.

I use my diffuser and my flash right on my camera, but I think more pros than not use their flashes off camera to create depth and make their subjects more three-dimensional. However, that would require an extra hand that I don't have, and either a flash cord/bracket set up or an assistant/light stand with a wireless transmitter (like the Pocket Wizards Katja uses).

Flash straight on is often called "beauty light". It tends to soften wrinkles and is often used in glamour. But a lot of people feel that the lack of texture on the portraits robs it of character, and also the look is rather flat and 2 dimensional, and that's why models have to wear so much makeup to compensate for the flattening effect of the light.

But it's easy and flattering, and that's what a lot of people want, so as long as you're careful to position their heads so the light doesn't make one side of their face look too broad. And you can move around your subject quickly and capture expressions without having to direct an assistant or moving lights.

Of course, using natural light is even better, but it's not always there where you need it. But I digress, as usual.

You mentioned that your main goal is to get sharper pictures. We know you have a nice sharp lens. I understand that the lens is usually sharpest 2 stops below wide open, so for a 1.4, I think that means you're sharpest at 2.8.

You might ask yourself if you are focused well on your subject--are you using your focusing points on your camera, and is your camera set to track and even predict your subject's motion? When you shoot with a wider aperture, you have a narrower depth of field (area that's in focus), so you have to be more careful where you focus. Of course, when the subjects are far away from you, you actually have a lot more leeway in focusing than when the subjects are close up.

Are pictures blurry because the players are moving too fast (then you might need a higher shutter speed). When you use your flash to increase the light, you can often get higher shutter speeds, but you will also have to set your camera or flash to high speed sync because otherwise, your flash may not synchronize when with when your shutter is actually open because the time is so short.

Are the pictures blurry because some one is jostling your elbow because you are shooting? You might need to use a tripod, or if they're not allowed, a monopod, or something that lets you brace your camera on something solid. There's a trick of attaching a string to the bottom of your camera with a screw in your tripod mount, and stepping on the string to create tension, and that holds the camera steadier. Mind you, I've never tried it.

That's typical of me--all theory and no practical experience. But it sounded clever, didn't it?

[Kim Hansen]

Nancy, in the past, I have paid money for information like this and it wasn't as near as helpful. I just printed out this info; it is so good. I love the part about sharper pictures. Changing aperature from 1.4 to 2.8. YOU HAVE REALLY BEEN HELPFUL and made me a better photographer. I owe you. This was excellent. THANK YOU.

[Kim Hansen]

[QUOTE=iNancy;49048]The diffuser, as Kelli says, is for the flash, and just as she says, there are lots to choose from.

You mentioned that your main goal is to get sharper pictures. We know you have a nice sharp lens. I understand that the lens is usually sharpest 2 stops below wide open, so for a 1.4, I think that means you're sharpest at 2.8.

You might ask yourself if you are focused well on your subject--are you using your focusing points on your camera, and is your camera set to track and even predict your subject's motion? When you shoot with a wider aperture, you have a narrower depth of field (area that's in focus), so you have to be more careful where you focus. Of course, when the subjects are far away from you, you actually have a lot more leeway in focusing than when the subjects are close up.

Are pictures blurry because the players are moving too fast (then you might need a higher shutter speed). When you use your flash to increase the light, you can often get higher shutter speeds, but you will also have to set your camera or flash to high speed sync because otherwise, your flash may not synchronize when with when your shutter is actually open because the time is so short.
QUOTE]

Nancy, I'm studying this information again this morning--above information is exactly what I need. Yes, I do need to use my focal points better. The action is so fast (basketball) that I tend to get distracted. I'm going to shoot again tonight at the girl's game. I thought I got some good shots last night--two mom's came up to me and kind of talked me into talking pictures of their boys.

Nancy, I want to meet you someday.

[iNancy]

You're sweet, Kim. I'm actually just learning, just like you. I happened to decide I needed a better external flash 2 months ago, and that's why the information is still fresh in my head.

I'm still looking at my pictures and trying to figure out why something didn't come out as sharp as I'd like, and what I wrote is all stuff that others have written on this board and on other photography boards, plus what I've picked up in books and magazines.

I think it's great that you are going to get to photograph other kids for their moms. The practice can only help (I'm starting to practice on my friends' kids pretty often), and the moms are so thrilled to get whatever you are able to produce. It's a win-win situation when you're still learning. I've done 5 "formal" photo shoots of my family and friends' kids, and each time when I examine my pictures, I learn something about what is working for me and what I'll have to remember for next time.

I just did a whole family shoot and just learned that if you're using a semi-wide angle to get the whole family in a somewhat small room, the angle that's most flattering for the 3 year old child (at his eye level) is not necessarily flattering for the parents (made their chins look too big by proportion). Next time I'll have to reposition everyone's faces a little closer together and raise my camera height when I shoot in that room again.

I'm also trying to figure out my own focus issues. Looking at my embedded information in the photos is really helpful since I can analyze my aperture setting, shutter speed, and if I used my flash. Ironically, my hand held shots up close were much sharper than the tripod shots taken farther away. So I definitely don't have all the answers yet.

[Kim Hansen]

Nancy--YOU are the SWEET one and I definitely think YOU KNOW YOUR STUFF. I shot the game last night at 3.5 and raised my shutterspeed like you said, depth of field much better. I think I should try a tripod next time, just to see the difference.

Now, you have raised another question with me--wide angle--to take group shots. What's that lens called? I'm sorry I'm such a rookie, but I love learning about photography. Thanks so much.

[Kim Hansen]

You might ask yourself if you are focused well on your subject--are you using your focusing points on your camera, and is your camera set to track and even predict your subject's motion? When you shoot with a wider aperture, you have a narrower depth of field (area that's in focus), so you have to be more careful where you focus. Of course, when the subjects are far away from you, you actually have a lot more leeway in focusing than when the subjects are close up.



Nancy, I need some help on this--I've heard about this, do I need to go into my menu and set something, or do I just look at the boxes in the viewfinder?

[iNancy]

Predictive focus is something you would set in your camera, if it has that capability (I think most of the Canon SLRs do.) Which camera are you using? I know it's a Canon. My camera has an AF (autofocus) button on the back (it doubles as one of the arrow keys) and you can change from single shot AF (you focus, it locks until you shoot) to AI (artificial intelligence) autofocus (you focus, and it keeps refocusing everytime it senses your subect moves), to AI Servo AF (it will actually try to predict where your subject is going).

I was using my 18-55 mm lens that came with my XTi, which I know a lot of people diss, but it's just fine for me to learn on. I have a 50 mm 1.8 lens as well, which I prefer for portraits, but my living room isn't wide enough to shoot full length adult portraits with the 50 mm lens, so I used the other lens.

I'm not good enough yet to justify buying a really expensive lens. I'm still a little freaked out on how much camera stuff I've bought in the last 6 months!

[Kim Hansen]

Okay, Nancy, another great lesson. Another one to print out and keep close. I have the Canon XTi too; so I will try this. I hope you know how much you are helping me. Thank you so much.

[iNancy]

I hope that it does help. I hope I don't lead you astray. One of my friends' golf game went way down after he took some intense golf lessons and started overthinking everything. I'm definitely queen of the overthinkers.

[Kim Hansen]

Nancy, I'm going to try your AF mode this week; I found it on my camera easily from the instructions you gave. No worries about the confusion; (that's my husband's job:) ) Your knowledge has given me more options and I'm feeling pretty good about them. I'll keep you posted and for sure ask more questions. I know when I have a great instructor:) Thanks for everything.

PS. Tell your friend to square up and swing "LOW and SLOW" it works every time.

[Misty]

Thanks for all the information, Nancy (and Kim for prompting it). Great info!

[brookiewookie]

THanks for sharing your brilliance, Nancy! :)